My life with gallstone and without it
What is gallstone? I tell you what a gallstone is, gallstone is a nasty rock that sits in your gallbladder and annoys you every day, every hour, every second of your life.
Hi, my name is Eugene from Estonia living in London, UK. Let me share my experience with gallstone.
Since childhood I had this problem, when I was running I suddenly had pain and was not aware of what was that, but I am pretty certain now that it was a growing little stone
Gallstone was discovered only recently maybe ten years ago first time it was 11mm then later it grew to 15mm and then to 18mm
And on day of operation it was a massive 24 mm that was unpleasant surprise
Exponential growth, more surface it gets faster it grows
I tried to use Ursodiol acid for months to dissolve my stone, but it did not work well, but maybe reduced speed of growth a little, also tried to drink special teas, apple juice and other home remedies like flushes and detoxes.
They do not work, you want to believe they do but they don’t, it a myth, no such thing.
Did you notice how none of the “cured” people present us with evidence?
Me on the other hand will show you every piece of evidence I have on my hands
If you want to try to soften up your gallstones with ursodiol, you can buy them from Andorra, contact these Spanish people at info@farmaciaandorra.es or visit website http://farmaciaandorra.es/
They speak mostly Spanish or English with Google translator. They sell URSOCHOL it is Spanish version of Ursodiol, average price would go like these ( at least for me on jueves, 10 de noviembre de 2011 12:08). Here is an example of their email to me (copy paste)
5 URSOCHOL 150 MGRS X 60 COMP… 9,71 €………………………..48.55€
TRANSPORT………………………………………………………
TOTAL…………………………………………………………………
Need to make delivery address, whose name was, telephone.
If for payment by CREDIT CARD makes the number , expiry date and the three number behind the card.
If done by mail to the address of pharmacy:
FARMACIA FONT FREDA
CASA NOVA JOANET S/N
ORDINO AD 300.
Check out NHS review of my gallstone, this is a special medical software Sectra Image Viewer with all images of gallstone download it here
In year 29 October 2009 gallstone was smaller, then a little bigger in year 2011 8th march, and last time ( middle 2012 ) I did ultrasound scan it was relatively same size.
Almost every year I was thinking to cut my gallbladder out, pain was increasingly unpleasant, but I did not want to give up.
I was hoping for new technologies to come, I gambled and I won my bet
Googled for new technology almost every 2 months or so for many many years, and nothing came on radar, lots of false alarm… at some point this year 2012 I almost gave up and decided to cut my gallbladder out, was sick and tired of constant pain and burning sensation in my upper abdomen…
and only in September 2012 by random luck found this tiny article in med. journal http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22299994
Doctor Chiao (Qiao) Tie made an upgrade of old technology and invented some new techniques to extract gallstones from a gallbladder. Pretty sure after 5 years to the future he will invent liquid hungry nano robots, they will chew up gallstones in a week time after injection into gallbladder 
This article was dated February 2012, how it slipped my attention is a mystery. Shame, I could have been treated much sooner than end of October 2012. In fact Dr. Tie Chiao had made this technology available to the public in year 2009! it was well tested and widely practiced in China Guangzhou for years, and I was suffering here in Europe UK and almost went along with local surgeons suggestion to cut my gallbladder loose. One surgeon said “Nobody is going to do you a favor and just take your stone out” … Indeed I am a future liability for NHS, I might come back some day again with new gallstones, and it is bad for Health Care System’s budget
But life without gallbladder is not that easy as life without appendix, that’s totally different game here. There are some serious consequences when gallbladder is taken out, like for example bile is dripping every minute to your intestines and you get a bad stool and you have to eat all the time in small portions, and stones are growing now in your bile duct and elsewhere…
Well, then went to odesk to find assistant to investigate this new treatment
Found Amanda https://www.odesk.com/users/~~928f3e34d11e4eba she did a great job investigating and arranging meeting with doctors in China
Her email is amanda9815 at gmail dot com, phone number is 0086-158-551-26719 (0086 is the code of mainland China.) Helped us a lot, great assistant, her fees roughly 15 USD per hour
My mistake I should have kept in touch with her when I was in China. I should have bought me Chinese SIM card right when I got to Hong Kong first, before entering China Guangzhou via speed ferry.
Bought 12000 Chinese Yuan from ICBC in City of London at a good price 10.6 CNY for 1 GBP. HSBC and Barclays were giving me bad rate ~9.4 CNY per GBP, ICBC was closest to the actual market rate.
Did Twinrix injections just in case Hep A + Hep B + some Asia vaccines before leaving to China. HEP A/B Injections need lots of time, so plan ahead.
Bought Chinese visa for 56 quid also, took 4 days to get it
NHS Sectra Image Viewer Gallstone Report, costs 15 GBP to get CD from them, not always they record images and videos into the database
Doctors greeting new patient from abroad. Surgeon & Inventor Dr. Tie Chiao, first right, holding one kilo of British chocolate, a token of appreciation from me. Most left is Dr. Wang surgeon also performs operations, most right is good assistant of doctor Wang, helped me with making initial tests like X-Ray, UltraSound, Cardio tests, and stuff ( costs 1300 CNY by the way, about 130 GBP), he speaks some basic English. Second left is anesthesia master if not mistaken, and second right somebody also important in surgery.
Here is video of fetching gallstone out. One big rock size of 24 mm, weighs about 4 grams. Great relief getting it out
details of the operation: cut a small right subcostal incision(about 1-3cm) under the monitoring of laparoscopy which entered through umbilicus and grasped gallbladder with forceps and extracted it outside of the abdominal wall, then cut off the gallbladder on the bottom (less than 6mm), explored in it, then drained the bile with a sterile ventricular drainage tube. When the bile drained out, gallbladder was explored with CHiAO cholecystoscope
(Chinese National Patent Number: ZL200820188856.6, China).
The large stones (Φ≥0.5cm) were removed by the various stone extracted basket, while the small stones (Φ<0.5cm), the bile sludge and sand-like stones were removed by the sand–like stones absorbing box using negative pressure. At last, double interlocking sutured the incision of the gallbladder bottom with absorbable catgut, made sure the suture was tight and then sutured the abdominal wall layer by layer.
Testing my gallstone in hospital
| Me right after operation, not amused I might say:) Felt massive pain everywhere |
After 4 days from operation, time to checkout from hospital |
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This is my room view in hospital where I spent my best 6 days of my life
Hospital view outside
Hospital bill for gallstone removal, roughly should be about 10 000 CNY or 1000 GBP (see current exchange rate here)but got some discounts from free meals. Meals are on average 10 CNY per meal.
Bills in details, first bill was for initial check up on me: xray, ultrasound, cardio, blood and stuff, 130 GBP cost, in total ~9300 CNY ~ 930 GBP
Hospital crew & me & my beloved girlfriend before leaving hospital for good
Crystal (mail: 710672705 at qq dot com ) the best nurse in China, understands and speaks English, helped us a lot with everything. Mad respects to her
Measuring gallstone size in cm and inches, pretty big one
Weighing gallstone, about 3 grams with cut off section, and probably 4 grams full size
Gallstone water tests
These are photos from their lab, under microscope we can see structure of my gallstone, under direct light it shines and sparkles, definitely there are lots of crystals in it
My scar on abdomen left from surgery, in belly button scar is almost invisible
Oh, also don’t forget to feed the hungry fish just across the road from the hospital, there is a small lake and lots of hungry golden fish
Questions and Answers:
The Chinese name of Dr. Tie Chiao is 乔铁. According to the Baidu (the no.1 search engine around Chinese community), searching result, he is the president of the Second People’s Hospital of Panyu District and also an expert in the area of removing gallstones while leaving the gallbladder intact).
From the “Online Inquiring” page of the hospital’s website, I found a reservation hotline of gallstone surgery. It is 020-34935551. I called this number several times and finally reached a doctor named 王兴强（Xing-Qiang Wang）. The information below are from him:
1. The endoscope in this surgery was created by their hospital.
2. Wan-Chao Huang is their engineer，who was involving in the creation of the endoscope. He is not able to do the gallstones operation.
3. Xiao-Bing Luo works in their clinical laboratory. He was involving in the project, but he is not able to do this operation too.
4. President Dr. Tie Qiao and he himself (Xing-Qiang Wang) can do this operation, but he recommended President Qiao as Qiao is by far the best doctor in this area. He often traveled around China and overseas to show this operation. For example, he will go to Ukraine etc. to do this operation during the first half of Oct.
5. Doctor xing-Qiang Wang said that the whole process needs about one week and the cost for it is approximately
CNY10,000. Generally, they can arrange the operation within about 2 days after you have some necessary examinations in their hospital.
6. Doctor Xing-Qiang Wang said that it is better to tell them some basic information about the patient, for example, the age. If it is possible, please fax them the B-ultrasonography examination results. Their fax number is 020-34935551. You should write “To: 王兴强 医生”。 If it is not convenient for you to do that, you can email it to me and I will fax it to them.
7. The phone number of Xing-Qing Wang is 133-1629-5262. President Tie Qiao’s number is 133-1629-5988. I haven’t called president Qiao yet because I think it is better to call him after you tell me some basic information about the patient.
Yang-De Zhang (张阳德) is the director of the “National Ministry of Heal Hepatobiliary and Enteric Surgery Research Center” and also the Doctor of the Xiang Ya Hospital, Central South University.
Here is the website of the research center: http://www.nhec.net.cn/, but it seemed that this website is not that professional as many pages don’t work.
Also I found a doctor named Jian Li (李坚)， who is the professor and archiater of Xiang Ya Hospital of Central South University. He has a personal website (http://lijian869.haodf.com/), in which many people left messages asking about the operation of removing gallstones while leaving the gallbladder intact.
There are no contact information of the two doctors in their website. I haven’t contact with Yang-De Zhang and Jian Li from Xiang Ya Hospital of Central South University. Do you want me to try to contact with them?
2 The cost of about CNY10,000 includes the fees for the operation and other fees during your stay in the hospital. They don’t charge any fee to your girlfriend for stay with you in the hospital.
3 The hospital provides three meals a day. The cost for one meal, one person is about CNY 7-10.(Both of you and your girlfriend need to pay for meals.). Please tell your taboos on diet if you have.
4 He would like to do the operation for you. You’d better make a reservation at least 3 to 5 days in advance. (I suggest you to make the reservation one month in advance because he seemed is very busy.)
5 If you go there in December, after December 20th, it’s Ok.(“After December” is not very clear, I suggest you to tell a specific time as much as possible. As far as I know, the President of a hospital are usually very busy.)
6 For the details and reservation, please contact with doctor Wang.(Number:13316295262 020-34935551)
7 It is better to have a translator with you, but it is Ok if you don’t. They have people who can use English to do the daily communications with you.
8 It’s better to bring your previous medical materials, like examination results etc.
9 You need to pay in RMB (CNY) and must be pay in cash.
10 Notes: if you have an acute cholecystitis attacks, you need to firstly accept anti-inflammatory treatment and then have the operation two weeks after that.
English Chinese
Name
名称 The Second People’s Hospital Panyu Guangzhou
http://www.dgrmyy.com/index.html
番禺第二人民医院
http://www.dgrmyy.com/index.html
Address
地址 Address: No.7 Xingye Road, Dagang Town, Panyu District, Guangzhou, Guangdong.
Post Code: 511470
地址：广东省广州市番禺区大岗镇兴业路7号
邮政编码：511470
Contacts联系人 Qiao Tie：133-1629-5988 020-34994386
乔铁：133-1629-5988 020-34994386
Doctor Wang：133-1629-5262 020-34935551
Fax: 34935551
王兴强：133-1629-5262 020-34935551
Fax: 34935551
Google Map http://maps.google.com.hk/maps?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=active&q=The+Second+Peoples+Hospital+Panyu+Guangzhou&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1284&bih=619&wrapid=tlif135011937028110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=2S95UI2gA8ndigfg7IDwDw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg
(In this page, “A” refers to the hospital)
Baidu
Map http://map.baidu.com/?newmap=1&ie=utf-8&s=s%26wd%3D%E5%B9%BF%E4%B8%9C%E7%9C%81%E5%B9%BF%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82%E7%95%AA%E7%A6%BA%E5%8C%BA%E5%A4%A7%E5%B2%97%E9%95%87%E5%85%B4%E4%B8%9A%E8%B7%AF7%E5%8F%B7
(In this page, “B” refers to the hospital)
How to get to the Hospital:
Doctor Wang said that you can go to the hospital from Hongkong to Panyu Hotel by “Direct Bus” (直通巴士). He knew that there is the bus station at Hongkong airport and other stations in Honkong, but he don’t know where they are.
Since you would live in Hongkong for one night, maybe you can ask hotel where the “Direct Bus” stations are. I will also do some research about this and will tell you once I got the details.
If you take the bus, please get off at “Panyu Hotel” (番禺宾馆). They will pick you up there.
Doctor Wang suggested you to call him twice. One is a day before you arrive Panyu, the other is before you get on the “Direct Bus”. (You can buy a special cell phone card, so that you can make phone calls from Hongkong to mainland China. In Hongkong, you can find the card in many stores, like Seven Eleven. This card can only use to call from Hongkong to mainland China. If you arrived mainland China, it would not work. So you’d better call doctor Wang before you leave Hongkong.)
More detailed info about this technology and doctors involved see here http://www.zgbdw.com/ and http://www.qpnj.net
PS. Don’t forget to mention that I, EUGENE GOOGLE, referred you to this hospital, you will get VIP treatment then
Update 15 Feb 2013. Ultrasound shows small stones are growing back again 3 stones ~3-4mm size now.
US ABDOMEN- Previous laparascopic removal of gallstones in China. Discomfort.
The gallbladder contains three mobile stones measuring approx 3-4mm.No US evidence
of cholecystitis
Liver is normal in size, outline and echotexture.
No intra-or extrahepatic duct dilatation. CBD = 3.9mm Forward flow in portal vein.
Kidneys are normal size, shape and appearance.
RT = 10.2 cm. LT = 9.6 cm.
No US evidence of stones or hydronephrosis.
Pancreas, spleen (10.2cm ) and aorta NAD.
CONCLUSION: The gallbladder contains three mobile stones measuring approx 3-4mm.
No intra- or extra-hepatic duct dilatation.No US evidence of cholecystitis.
Download 10 Feb 2013 Ultrasound Scan Images Here
update 26 april 2013
Visited GP, GP declined to send me to ultrasound scan, no matter how hard I asked him for it.
But he was happy to cut it out any time though.
Guess what’s left is either to find private ultrasound scan in UK, or go to Italy for less expensive scan or to find and buy from China ultrasound scan device and be independent DIY
16 May 2013 Going to Latvia in June 2013 for screening and ultrasound scan, much cheaper and faster than in UK NHS or private UK
Update 16 June 2013
Came from Latvia, did fully comprehensive medical screening for 250 GBP
Stones are bigger now, growing fast back again but fortunately no pain so far. Cholesterol level back to normal.
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Hi Eugene, I would really like to get this surgery, like you I have been searching for something like this for years, and just about to get on a waiting list for gallbladder removal after 6 years of holding off. The difficulty is that I am English speaking. If I call the hotline for booking a gallstone removal will they have someone who can speak english? I’m so happy you shared this online for me to find.
don’t cut your gallstone yet. They don’t speak English. Contact Crystal The Best Nurse at 710672705 at qq dot com, she might help you, or even better ask Amanda
https://www.odesk.com/users/~~928f3e34d11e4eba she did a great job investigating and arranging meeting with doctors in China
Her email is amanda9815 at gmail dot com, phone number is 0086-158-551-26719 (0086 is the code of mainland China.)
Helped us a lot, great assistant, her fees roughly 15 USD per hour. Buy Chinese SIM Card as soon as you get to china or even earlier
Hello Eugene; we have gone through your website and tried to contact Dr. Wang and Amanda as well. but, communication didn’t take place as they were not being able to understand me. I had sent them the same e-mail which i am copying below. Can you please provide any suggestion how to get a reply from them?
——– Пересылаемое сообщение ——–
От кого: Shalkovnikova Nadezhda
Кому: amanda9815@gmail.com
Дата: Понедельник, 25 марта 2013, 14:46 +04:00
Тема: Fwd: Re: Enquiry on Gallbladder endoscopes
Hello Ms Amanda,
Can you please convey the below mail to Dr. Wang of The Second People’s Hospital of Panyu District, Panyu, Guangzhou and request him to send a reply to us?
————————
With Best regards:
Shalkovnikova Nadezhda
e-mail:zelrostn@mail.ru
——– Пересылаемое сообщение ——–
От кого: Shalkovnikova Nadezhda
Кому: 13688895486@163.com, wkysxf@163.com
Дата: Понедельник, 25 марта 2013, 14:37 +04:00
Тема: Re: Enquiry on Gallbladder endoscopes
Hello Dr. Xiao-feng Wang,
My name is Ms. Nadezhda Shalkovnikova. I’m from Russia, Vladivostok.
I have heard about The Second People’s Hospital of Panyu District, Panyu, Guangzhou 511470, People’s Republic of China and your method of gallbladder endoscopes which is effective for gallstone removal without gallbladder excsion.
My friend Anna, who speaks Chinese, had talked to you over phone a few days back and gave me your email address. Your correspondence is copied below.
I have a problem with my daughter. She is 19 years old. In December 2012, a stone was found in her gallbladder of size 2.8 cm. The stone is very badly sitting in the neck of the bladder. The gallbladder is increased in size. Diagnosis is Cholestasis.
I want to know how to get my daughter to the surgery in your clinic. How to organize a visit, get examinated and listed for the surgery.
We will send the results of ultrasonography in English. What else is required?
Also, please let us know whether the hospital have interpreters in English or Russian?
————————
With Best regards:
Shalkovnikova Nadezhda
e-mail:zelrostn@mail.ru
王医生，
您好！
谢谢你的回复！
请问这种手术不是切除那种的，是吗？
王医生你是否会说英语的？因为我的朋友想自己与您联系一下。他怎么能与你们联系？
手术费用包括住院费是吗？
什么时候我的朋友要/最好安排去贵医院动手术？
谢谢并祝好，
玛雪晴 （Ann)
Vladivistok city, Russia
2013/3/18
您好:
我是王医生，您可以发邮件给我。我会尽快复您。
我们需要您朋友的肝胆脾胰的超声结果。最好是一个月之内检查的。翻译成中文或英文。使用专业术语最好。
这手术总得费用约12000元人民币。总的住院时间是5天。
王医生
If they have hard time understanding you then may I suggest you to hire a interpreter as I did, found on odesk.com
Also keep contact with interpreter whilst visiting China.
Thanx Eugene; Dr. Wang replied in e-mail and we will be sending the translation of our ultrasonography today. Let’s hope for the best.
Hello!Eugene.I am Dr.wang( Xiao-feng Wang). Do you remember me ?(I am a surgeon of The Second People′s Hospital of Panyu of China.) we are glad to see this page.
You can get materials of our operation from http://www.zgbdw.com/ and http://www.qpnj.net
my email address： wkysxf at 163 dot com
Hey! How you doing?
Of course I remember you, good job you did with me, thanks for fixing me 
Hello Dr. Xiao-feng Wang,
My name is Ms. Nadezhda Shalkovnikova. I’m from Russia, Vladivostok.
I have heard about The Second People’s Hospital of Panyu District, Panyu, Guangzhou 511470, People’s Republic of China and your method of gallbladder endoscopes which is effective for gallstone removal without gallbladder excsion.
My friend Anna, who speaks Chinese, had talked to you over phone a few days back and gave me your email address. Your correspondence is copied below.
I have a problem with my daughter. She is 19 years old. In December 2012, a stone was found in her gallbladder of size 2.8 cm. The stone is very badly sitting in the neck of the bladder. The gallbladder is increased in size. Diagnosis is Cholestasis.
I want to know how to get my daughter to the surgery in your clinic. How to organize a visit, get examinated and listed for the surgery.
We will send the results of ultrasonography in English. What else is required?
Also, please let us know whether the hospital have interpreters in English or Russian?
————————
With Best regards:
Shalkovnikova Nadezhda
e-mail:zelrostn@mail.ru
王医生，
您好！
谢谢你的回复！
请问这种手术不是切除那种的，是吗？
王医生你是否会说英语的？因为我的朋友想自己与您联系一下。他怎么能与你们联系？
手术费用包括住院费是吗？
什么时候我的朋友要/最好安排去贵医院动手术？
谢谢并祝好，
玛雪晴 （Ann)
Vladivistok city, Russia
2013/3/18
您好:
我是王医生，您可以发邮件给我。我会尽快复您。
我们需要您朋友的肝胆脾胰的超声结果。最好是一个月之内检查的。翻译成中文或英文。使用专业术语最好。
这手术总得费用约12000元人民币。总的住院时间是5天。
王医生
Dear Dr. Wang
I don’t see any improvement in the other parts of the world to understand and apply the technique in past year.
I started my endevaurs to generate the awareness. You will see much more patients and doctors who will visit China to see and learn your technique. I believe that you should market your endoscope also.
Regards.
Hi ！Eugene. Give my kind regards to you and Nataly!Your friends need the details of the operation: cut a small right subcostal incision(about 1-3cm) under the monitoring of laparoscopy which entered through umbilicus and grasped gallbladder with forceps and extracted it outside of the abdominal wall, then cut off the gallbladder on the bottom (less than 6mm), explored in it, then drained the bile with a sterile ventricular drainage tube. When the bile drained out, gallbladder was explored with CHiAO cholecystoscope
(Chinese National Patent Number: ZL200820188856.6, China).
The large stones (Φ≥0.5cm) were removed by the various stone extracted basket, while the small stones (Φ<0.5cm), the bile sludge and sand-like stones were removed by the sand–like stones absorbing box using negative pressure. At last, double interlocking sutured the incision of the gallbladder bottom with absorbable catgut, made sure the suture was tight and then sutured the abdominal wall layer by layer.
In the past four years, our institute has published 3 monographs and more than 30 papers, assumed 6 science technology projects, applied for 6 national invention patents, and accomplished 9 original SCI papers.
Since 2008, the institute led by Tie Qiao has applied for 900 national patents and 38 international patents (PCT) in the medical endoscopic field, and 650 national patents are granted. Director Tie Qiao is the unique doctor who applied for and gained the most patents in the world.
welcome to connect with us.
please send me more info on your unique gallstone removal technique
Everything I know is in this site
Ask Doctor Wang for more technical details.
A really interesting account and I wish you the best of luck on your recovery. My slight reservation about going ahead with this is the possibility of the stones coming back.
Did the doctor’s mention this to you at all?
There is no doubt that stones will come back sooner or later, but it will takes many years to form a new stone big enough to cause problems.
My gallbladder is working fine, it is not perfectly contracting, but still workable and pumps out bile when needed.
My policy is simple, better to have something good rather than not
Surgeons always happy to cut something, it is easier for them.
One NHS surgeons told me here in UK: Nobody is going to do you a favor here and pick up your stone.
What kind of disease will be with no recurrence ?
Hi again, thanks for replying and hope you all had a nice Christmas.
I understand your attitude.
If you don’t mind me asking – what do you plan to do once the gallstones come back again?
Regards
When gallstones come back I’ll drink doctor Tie Qiao special nanobots apple juice and gallstones will dissolve
Can I ask – how are you feeling now? Any negative after effects from the surgery? You mention the gallbladder not perfectly contracting….so presumably not releasing enough bile? Will this get better as you get stronger?
I am absolutely fascinated by this surgery….and am hopeful of finding somebody here in the U.K.
As for stones coming back – presumably you can avoid them ‘getting too big’ by taking more care with your diet and flushing/dissolving etc.
Lots of things can be done to improve bile flow for sure.
Like you I am struggling with a large stone which is being very stubborn to dissolve…..even with TCM.
I am very pleased for you that you have kept your gb! Well done you. And why, of why, is this surgery being kept a secret….and I am told…there is absolutely nothing you can do except remove the gallbladder.
I am feeling much better now, it is day and night difference. I ate chicken numerous times since operation and I felt good, only for very brief moment ~5 minutes I had some sensation in my gallbladder, like it was doing something, maybe contracting and pushing out bile. Used to be pain for day or two up to 4 out of 10 and then subsides to constant burning pain 2 out of 10.
But now I can’t feel my gallbladder when I am not eating, it is so cool and such a relief
I am thinking to resume eating Ursochol pills.
This surgery is not secret, but it is very recent in medical terms, because I was shown to first fotos of this surgery and it was dated late year 2008 in China, so very recent.
It will take many many years before UK will accept this type of surgery or won’t be accepted by NHS at all, because it is easier and cheaper to cut out problem.
I have received this reply concerning my enquiry re the availability of this surgery in the U.K.
Hello !
The dean of the medical college of Chinese University of Hong Kong visited our hospital last year. They are interested in our technique. And Dr. Tie Qiao recieved endoscopic medical awards because of his achievement in U.K.. But this surgery is not available in U.K. now.
Best regards.
Xiaofeng Wang
How much does this cost in Total? everything included?
if going from uk london
visa 50 GBP for EU citizen
vaccines for free from NHS or 60 GBP if private
return ticket to hong kong 560 gbp if bought in advance minimum 3 weeks
one night stay in an awful hotel “room” (more like a detention cell) on the high street 70 GBP
ferry ticket from Hong Kong to Guangzhou County, Panyu City ~ 20 GBP
operation and hospital room + food ~ 1 000 GBP
finally feeling good … priceless
these are estimates, roughly bare minimum ~1700 GBP
Another question Eugene…
Carole
How long did you stay in China? You say you were in the hospital for just four days. What happened next? How long before you can fly back to the U.K.?
Must be nice to be able to eat again – no pain and no fear of eating!
p.s. Very good of you to set up the website.
we were picked up by Dr. Wang from Panyu ferry terminal on Sunday and left hospital next Saturday in the morning, I believe, then went to Guangzhou city.
Visited also Thailand Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket and Singapore while we were at it
Returned to UK after ~23 days.
Hi Deb, thanks so much for you qnuitsoes. Here are my thoughts:Yes, apple cider vinegar is great for your gallbladder; but if it’s making you feel bad, I suggest taking a break from it. Each person’s body is different and what works for one person’s gallbladder, may not work for someone else’s. Also keep in mind that ACV can hurt the enamel on your teeth if you drink too much of it too often.It’s possible the ACV is helping dissolve the gallstones and potentially gallbladder sludge as well, and that loosening up could be what’s painful. If that’s the case, in the long run you should be better off as those smaller chunks could be flushed out of your gallbladder.That’s great on eating more salads and vegetables. The best ones are radishes, beets, cucumbers, artichokes, and leafy greens. Adding some good Omega-3 fats like flax seed oil and fresh water salmon would be great too.I don’t really see a problem doing this flush while you’re nursing, but because the epsom salts are high in magnesium, it’s probably best to wait until you’re done, just to be safe. I would do one, then wait about a month, and do another. If you’re like me, you’ll feel like a million bucks a few days after doing the cleanse.I hope this helps!-Chaz
After many hours of research and personal contact with some medical specialists i have found this info
The procedure called ERCP plus cholangioscopy and is available in the UK
8 NHS hospitals are currently doing it – it can also be carried out privately
Have a read of this link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2197834/Gallstones-I-hardly-pain-shockwaves-shattered-gallstones.html
Endoscope will get out the small stones and then the small probe through the endoscope will blast the larger stones ready to be lifted out..
Good to see all the interest in your story Eugene, there are so many people who have suffered awful symptoms from gallbladder removal, it’s very important that people have access to this information and know about alternative options. I am so grateful for this information and planning to have the surgery in a couple of months.
In answer to the question about what to do if stones reoccur – there are things we can do to prevent stones from reforming, but I hope that if or when this happens laproscopic gallstone removal will be available in our own Western countries. Or even other gallbladder preserving technologies which are under researched like direct dissolution. The more evidence we can show that people are experiencing negative effects from gallbladder removal the more likely that western medicine will take gallbladder preserving technologies seriously. Clearly there are many of us who are not satisfied with our options!
Curious to know Euguene, were you able to eat all things straight after the surgery or did you have to avoid certain foods for a period?
Hi Gina,
Are you planning to go to China too? I am so tempted…however will have to wait a bit.
Please can you letm us know how you get on.
Thank you.
Carole
Hi Carole
there ia a procedure called ERCP plus cholangioscopy and is available in the UK
8 NHS hospitals are currently doing it – it can also be carried out privately
Have a read of this link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2197834/Gallstones-I-hardly-pain-shockwaves-shattered-gallstones.html
Endoscope will get out the small stones and then the small probe through the endoscope will blast the larger stones ready to be lifted out..
The procedure, also available at eight other NHS hospitals, costs £3,000 to £5,000 to the NHS, depending on the complexity. It can also be carried out privately.
For details on gallstones, visit corecharity.org.uk
Why would you spend up to 5k or more on surgery when you can have it for 1700 GBP?
add extra 1000 gbp to it and you are going to have a fantastic 2 weeks vacation in China/Asia
Correct me if i am wrong but i think that you are not interpreting the wording correctly
“It costs 3-5k TO THE NHS” usual NHS treatment as far as i know is Free – paid by the NHS
Thats why it also states that if can be done privately also…obviously that is paid..
well thats how i understood it – also a few things to consider may well be having it done in uk
- Aftercare by UK doctors / nurses- if anything needs to be checked / controlled, or whatever – a lot easier if its in UK
- You know pretty well the hospital system and language – ease of mind- one less thing to worry about
- Not having to travel hundred of miles possibly in pain or distress
- Initial CHeckup / sono checks / blood tests / all easier if in own language
and the list could continue
- lastly there is a 10% chance as with any operation that some complications can happen during or afterwards…given the distance of china as opposed to having it done even locally in uk the peace of mind is more stable knowing that whenever something could/may happen you can get treatment pretty quickly.
given your situation if you did need some treatment then what a pain it would be to given that NO uk hospital would even have any documentation about the operation and how best to treat it..as the case notes would be in china…
i am pleased that you found a solution to your stones and obviously did not mind to get it done in China but i found another option and though it would be good to pass some details on..
i found out about the ERCP method after reading about the south african president who had his stones removed with ERCP sono technique
Hi Alex,
Thanks for taking the time to post this wonderful information. As you say, without the correct information re the surgery – I was continually led to gallbladder removal surgery…even after many hours. And, specialists I contacted telling me there was no other surgery other than removal of the gb….which I think is pretty shocking and unfair! I keep thinking of the articles re Nelson Mandela and his gallSTONE removal.
I have read the Daily Mail article – very interesting and will be contacting the specialist to see if I am suitable. I keep being told – stone too large to flush/dissolve…..2.8cm calcified gallstone. We shall see. I am on an intensive dissolving procedure now…with various info I have found online and from Andreas Moritz..Gallbladder/Liver flush.
Re Epsom Salts….I am a huge fan – taking relaxing long baths using the ES – they are brilliant and relax the whole body and any gb discomfort disappears very quickly. Also, I have found that just dripping my fingertip in some ES will help relieve any pressure/discomfort in about 15 minutes. ES help to relax and dilate the bile ducts I understand. So that the people in China are using this is very interesting. ES (Magnesium Sulphate) is fine – in larger doses may cause tummy/loose bowels.
Eugene…you are a young healthy man and ‘huge respect’ to you for travelling to China. I am not so young and had a near-death experience to anti-malaria drugs whilst on holiday in South Africa which means I can no longer travel to certain countries that require this vaccination….which I would need to make the trip to China, as well as rabies!?! And find somebody to travel with…. A lot to think about….and Liverpool is closer (and I’ve never been to Liverpool!
Thanks everybody for posting.
Carole
I was told not to eat for couple of weeks fatty food, also was given to drink for two weeks some minty pills + Magnesium sulfate aka Epsom salts like, ungodly horrible taste and vomit inducing liquid.
otherwise it would have been painful experience.
I believe it was to relax my stool
First days I was eating soups and liquids, no more than that. Even after 2 weeks I felt stitches on my gallbladder, it was not easy to get up from bed, could not use my abdominal muscles too much – laughing was painful, sneezing, coughing, etc were painful as well.
Two ladies from Moscow went to hospital first, before me, it was in September 2012.
Some say, they were smoking and running around the hospital eating stuff next day after operation, all I know it was not in my case. I think it was because of stone’s size. As you can see on video surgeons tried hard several times to pull it out, and probably stretched gallbladder’s incision hole a bit
Just reading your first paragraph that you tried “Flushes”
- how many flushed exactly did you try ?
- and how long did you try it for (meaning length of time) ?
i quote your last message
“I was told not to eat for couple of weeks fatty food, also was given to drink for two weeks some minty pills + Magnesium sulfate aka Epsom salts ”
Epsom salts as i know are part of the so called Flush methods of removing gallstones from the body. Very interesting to read that you were given them in CHina after your operation..
so there must be something in these Epsom Salts to open / relax the bile ducts to release tension thus releaving pain or pressure around the mid-chest/sternum areas
Now my point is why would they give you Espom Salts when so many people are saying in regards to Flushes that epsom salts are not working and you should not put any salt into the body in the first place..
so they must work to some degree / maybe fully work or the hospital in china would not have given them to you…
ERCP treatment for removal of gallstones has been in the USA for well over 6 years – which dates it before the hospital doctors in china. whom you state started in 2009
some of my local hospitals (in Czech Republic) whom my wife has medical business contact with were asked by her about if they do the procedure ERCP to remove gallstones – they looked at her like she was from the Moon and their reply was “of course we do it”
which brings me to the direct findings that if you dont know the correct name of “ERCP plus cholangioscopy”
then you can be sent to the surgeon who will want to remove the gallbladder
hopefully this information can be useful to people who are considering gallstone removal…
Hi again!
Now I’ve read about the ERCP plus cholangioscopy and re-read Eugene’s surgery.
I think the operations are two different procedures. The ERCP plus cholangioscopy is when the doctors ‘operate’ via an endoscopy (down the throat) and it is used when a stone is blocking a bile duct or the stone is cholesterol and can be zapped by shockwaves. The surgery Eugene had was a laparoscopy (via the abdomen) and the gb was cut to remove the stones.
In my case, the calcified gallstone is not suitable to be zapped.
Carole
Dr Sturgess is the doctor featured in the Daily Mail link supplied by Alex to this site.
This is his response to my particular query re gallbladder stones….
I have spoken to Dr Sturgess with your query and he says that it is not suitable for gallbladder stones, only difficult bile duct stones.
Carole
Hello, Eugene.
I’m Dr. Wang Gang, three months past afer the operation, how are you feeling now?
Afer read the replay of other people, I explain a problem. ERCP is used to remove stones in the common bile duct, the operation is through oral with a duodenoscopy. It can not be used to treat gallbladder stones.
Our operation is to remove stones in gallbladder. We can do ERCP also.
Hi there! I am doing good, thanks.
Tomorrow I am going to GP to get an appointment for ultra scan, will take couple of weeks I guess before I upload results.
I had a severe paufnil gall bladder attack when I was pregnant with my second child. It seemed I always had a huge gas bubble right under my sternum whenever I ate and had terrible indigestion. I read up on things I could do at the time and eventually symptoms went away. I am gluten and dairy free (except for the occasional parmesan cheese on salads). The last week I read the awesome benefits ACV and have been taking two teaspoons in a large glass of water 3 times a day. The last two days I have had horrible gas and bloating ( I can move the gas bubble around ). I feel nauseated discomfort, but no pain like I felt when this happened while pregnant. Could the apple cider vinegar be aiding in moving stones? Should I continue doing the ACV? I have been eating more salads and vegetables, no fruit except occasional apple, also avoiding sugars in attempts to get candida under control. My vice is my morning coffee. I am scratching my head on why the sudden gall bladder issues. Also, I am still nursing so I am assuming this type of flush should not be tried until after baby is weened?! Thank you for your helpful sight!
Good day I would like to know the total price of the surgery please for more information my hotmail is Drnortesur68@hotmail.com
Carole, that was a crucial question that you got a reply to from the doctor. ERCP is for removing stones in the bile duct, not the bladder itself. What they do in China is unique in that it removes the stones from the bladder. The main thing you have to be aware of is there is a chance the stones will come back if you get the china treatment – Dr Wang Gang does say this. According to a website (sorry I have no reference) it said something along the lines of “A malfunctioning gallbladder is essentially a factory producing gallstones”. Removal of gallbladder removes the stones and the possibility of them coming back for most people.
Nelson Mandella is 94 years old and got ERCP, we can conclude from that, that stones in his bile duct were causing problems and hence removed. Also even if they did remove the stones from his bladder, he is unlikely to live long enough to worry about them coming back.
Through the fact finding I have done, it appears that any method that removes the stones but leaves the bladder in tends to be temporary and have significant disadvantages. Some medical technology would have to be invented that would cause the diseased gallbladder to function normally again. I think this is the reason why gallbladder removal is still the favoured treatment by most doctors worldwide.
This is an awful truth to face. I know how it feels as I have stones. I too have a great respect for Eugene and Dr Wang Gang in China. However, I am concerned about having a procedure to remove the stones only for them to return a few years later to eventually decide to “bite the bullet” and just be done with it and have the gallbladder removed.
Kidney stones are recurring all the time, but you don’t remove kidney.
If surgeon removes kidney, patient dies 100%, so surgeons have to remove kidney stones time and time again, they have got no choice.
But gallbladder is not critical organ, but nevertheless important one. So doctors go the easy and cheap way – remove gallbladder and forget about it.
Gallbladder is an important organ, you can always cut it out later.
Don’t be afraid, try it first =)
Hi Eugene!
Thanks a million for this website! I have been diagnosed with gallstones last October after a particularly festive trip to Russia
. Surgeons in my hometown & in Dubai where I currently live all suggested removal. I did not agree. I was looking for alternative, so I found articles about Dr. Wang & team, but couldn’t find contacts until recently. I had a very severe attack last week & was about to give in for surgery in Dubai, but then I tried my luck & called Dr. Wang.
I’m arranging our trip for this Wed & hope to have the surgery this coming weekend! Your site was a HUGE help with all the details about operation & the trip itself. I will post an update once I have it
Can’t wait!
woohoooo!, congrats, keep us posted about your experience =)
Hi!
This is all very exciting news. Irina good luck and please post how you get on.
Jennifer as to your comment…..I have had to change my diet a great deal because of the gb problems and I know that without the gb I may have problems and so will have to be aware of that. It seems that there is a great deal that can be done to help the gb function well and that would certainly be my preference. Also helping treat gallstones before they become a problem. Technology is moving so fast – let’s hope they come up with something that can help people with gallstones in the bladder. It is rather beyond my comprehensive that a machine can help with a stone stuck in a bile duct and yet cannot help remove a stone in the bladder!?!
I wish Dr Wang Gang could come to England…..I’m sure he would have people lining up for the surgery.
Carole
I ate British duck and Hare & Tortoise Yum Noodle and some laksa and nothing bad happened to me
It was a good day
Hi Sylvia, if you just have a pinch of pain on the right-side of your body about at the bottom of your rib cage, there’s a good cchnae it’s a gallbladder problem and most likely gallstones. Take a look at our post about to better diagnose the issue. If you do have gallstones, we suggest doing a and changing to a healthy . Keep us posted on how it goes!
every patient gets a good appetite after operation. enjoy your life!
Hello again! Just want to report the successful operation that I had on Jan 26. One big (almost 2cm) & about 5 small stones are out for good! I feel good, the only inconvenience is the post CO2 gas pain that surprisingly radiates to the shoulder, but it’s going down with every day.
I’m able to walk & slowly started eating solids again. The hospital stuff is amazing & so helpful. Nurse Crystal is just a star!!! She helped us a lot.
Hopefully I will be discharged after a couple of days, if everything continues to go well. Cannot wait to return to normal life – last 3-4 months my diet was mostly steamed veggies & baby food. I so hope to eat some delicious dumplings before I go back to Dubai.
I cannot recommend this operation more if you’re suffering from sever gallstones attack & there’s no way to treat them with drugs! Yes, it’s a surgery, but it’s minimally invasive & so far seems to be the most advance technology in gallstones removal.
P.S. The hungry fish miss you so much Eugene! We’ve been feeding them on your behalf every day.
Woohhooo! Congrats on successful operation!
And thanks for taking care of hungry gold fish, they are all starving =)
Website
I’m happy to see so many people interested in gallstone found resonance on this site. Thank you very much EUGUNE made detailed site, brought hope to these deeply troubled by the gallbladder disease. I hope that you can get rid of the stones troubled return to normal life. FOMINA IRINA, REPNIKOVA VERONIKA; UGENG, NATALY, Konstantin and Julia Hodak.
You guys now? I will never forget the good times spent with you, very happy to do your special care, because you my spoken English has been a breakthrough progress, I miss you, you have the time to travel to China,
Hello Crystal! You will get more chance to practice English, I am sure more people all over the world are coming to you!
yes,more and more people will come to our hospital .So now i have to study english more and more harder!
tody ,Irina will leave the hospital.The time was getting so fast ,we have stay with each other for 4 days,but not enough time for us.But i feel very happy she has got all her stones out and get a heathy body.Tomorrow she wll came back to her hometown,all the best for her and metvey.Hope next time to see you!
Hello, Erik,
I’m doctor Wang Gang, you’d better send your B-ultrosound test report to us. We should know about your gallbladder and stones now.
My email: 122642771@qq.com
Hello, Eugene. Long ago you did not write. In what state is now in your gallbladder does not disappear cake? I removed within 5 months of the stones in my gall bladder ursofalk but results ultrasound they become smaller. I told the doctor about perazim in China for the gall bladder, which can remove the stones, retaining body. The doctor said that the operation against all medical canons. That after some time the stones appear again and I have already sent to the removal of the gall bladder. My dream is to get rid of the stones, but I’m afraid to go to a foreign country, that the operation does not bring the desired results.
Do you think Eugene, why no one else is writing about the results of operations and how the rehab? Why do not people share their experiences?
Please write regarding the surgery, if possible – how to penetrate the gall bladder through the stomach or not? How is the surgery? This is very important. And if you speak in Russian? Thank you in advance for your response.
Hello everyone!
Just wanted to say many THANKS to the amazing doctors at the hospital. It’s been a life changing week for me. I have received a picture of all my stones today from Dr. Wang Gang – it’s 18 of them (!!!), including a huge 2cm one. I’m really glad they’re all out!
I have arrived home today & feel great. I still continue on some medication & keeping a low fat diet for now, as my gallbladder was chronically inflamed & the inflammation is slowly reducing now.
I realie that unless I change my lifestyle to a healthier one the stones might come back. But I’m very determined not to let them. I have reduced my weight significantly over the last few months & will continue to do so, eating healthy & exercising.
It’s a great thing that there’s this hospital that can let you keep your organ & live normal life.
Eugene, you did an amazing job with this website, and if I didn’t see it at the right time I would have lost my gallbladder to the local butchers.
Crystal, you’re an amazing nurse & you’ve become a great friend over these few days!
Dr. Wang Gang & his team are great professionals & truly care about their patients, thank you so much!
And of course, President Tie Qieao who invented the endoscope & perfomed the operation – THANK YOU!
Best regards,
Irina
Hello Irina,
I am so glad to hear that your surgery was a success and you are fully recovered and back to normal life! I was wondering if you could email me so I can ask you some questions, because I am seriously considering this surgery and would love to get more of your input. Whenever you are free, please send me a quick email. Thank you!
hi,Irina,very happy that you have got to your home.Takecare of yourself ,more rest and not to make youself so tired.I sure metvey will look afer you very well. I miss you.I make a skype .Remember to tell me your skype nomber,then we can talk and see each other.
Happy New Year to all of you from your Global patients!
Wishing you the very best!
Yours,
Eugene & Natalija
Happy New Year to YOU & Natalija!!
Hello. I write to you from Russia. My name is Natalia. I am 28 years old. Long ago I suffer from a zhelchekamenny illness. In a gall bladder I have some concrements (1 of them of the size of 9 to 1 cm, besides doctors think that is a polyp, others, them a little from 3 to 6-7 mm in the diameter). Besides to me make the diagnosis duodenitis, bile in a stomach. I know that in China, the city of Guangzhou there is a clinic on removal of stones from a gall bladder keeping thus body. Answer please what results and consequences after operation? How much is operation? What terms of rehabilitation and guarantee? And what is necessary for operation? Very much I look forward to hearing from you.
I sent you to the post results from the last abdominal ultrasound and fibrogastroscopy. I drink to dissolve the stones Ursofalk 1.5 months on a diet – do not eat fried, spicy, salty, smoked, starchy foods, drink more water. Also used flax seeds and beet broth.
And if you do not dissolve the stones? What to do then? Please write how the gall bladder after surgery, it reduces, not whether bile leaks? Does not affect the quality of the seam on the gall bladder. Waiting for your reply. Thank you.
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I got new ultra sound scans, stones are growing back slowly, 3mm size now
http://whatisgallstone.com/#newscan
You answer my questions? I wrote an email to Dr. Wang, but also while the answer to your problem is not received.
Write please – stones come back at all so quickly? You will be repeatedly operated?
I saw the pictures of the ultrasound, there are something like small stones in the gallbladder. After your operation there is only about there months. Stones would not form so quick. Now the stones may be biliary sludge. In the video of your operation, we had taken all the stones away.
You can take Ursodeoxycholic acid to dissolve the stones. Take 10mg/kg per day. 250mg each time, 3 times a day. You should take B ultrasound each month. If the stones disappear, then reduce the dose. After take Ursodeoxycholic acid, you should check the liver function.
Besides take Ursodeoxycholic acid, you can take Epsom salt (33% Adlerika). It is a medicine of cholagogue. Oral administration, 15ml each time, three times a day, taking before meals, 2 days as a course of treatment, taking one course every 2 weeks. If diarrhea, a common side effect of this medicine, was serious, reduce the dosage (10ml each time) or stop intake.
Keep a reasonable and healthy diet, more crude fiber food and eat regularly.
I sent you to the post results from the last abdominal ultrasound and fibrogastroscopy. I drink to dissolve the stones Ursofalk 1.5 months on a diet – do not eat fried, spicy, salty, smoked, starchy foods, drink more water. Also used flax seeds and beet broth.
And if you do not dissolve the stones? What to do then? Please write how the gall bladder after surgery, it reduces, not whether bile leaks? Does not affect the quality of the seam on the gall bladder. Waiting for your reply. Thank you.
Eugene, that was very good of you to post the results of your ultrascan – thank you very much for that. It proves you are a person of good character and integrity in that you share all news of your experience regardless of whether it is good or bad.
I am sorry to hear that your stones appear to have come back so soon – I wasn’t expecting that. You deserved better with the effort you put in.
I hope you are ok and your positivity will guide you through your next step.
Hi Eugene, thanks for taking the time to post your latest results. And I concur with Jennifer’s comments. You have been brilliant to put this information online to help people and I so hope you can find a positive way forwards. I was hoping that I might have some ‘helpful’ information for you. I have just had another scan which shows that my large gallstone is getting bigger – up to 3.1cms now since November when it was 3.0cms. This is particularly sad because I have been on an intensive dissolving protocol using Gold Coin Grass and Chanca Piedra. No impact on the stone, thus far. I thought that perhaps having the Chinese surgery would at least remove the stone and then a continued strict diet and help to improve gb health and doing a dissolving/flushing protocol if tiny stones came back would be the answer. However, if nothing ‘dissolves’ stones…it is a bit difficult to make decisions on what direction to go.
Hopefully the advice you have been given….a sort of mini flush with the Epsom Salts/Acid will get rid of the stones that have formed and then a regular maintenance protocol will help.
I still feel this surgery is brilliant and if only it was in England….I would have it in a trice.
Will you be changing your diet to help?
Take care and let us know how you get on.
Hi Carole
just read about your new scan showing that the stone has increased in size. Recently i have spoken to the Top Gastroenterologist Professor in a main Hospital (he is NOT a surgeon and does not remove gallbladders) he is extremely knowledgeable on the gallbladder and other organs and told me this info when i saw him for my sono scan
there are 2 types of gallstones –
First is Dietry stones from what you eat
Second are hereditary stones – passed through family genes.
A gallbladder if it produces stones is diseased- if stones are taken out then they will come back again even with a acid like Ursodeoxycholic – which is successful on about 50% of patients and if they stop to take the acid then the stones grow back again.
Once the GB starts to produce stones even if its dietry stones then they can slowly also come back in time.And if hereditary then again will come back.
If stones are left inside the gallbladder for a long time then there are risks which could happen like gallbladder cancer / pancreatitis –
“Acute pancreatitis is a sudden inflammation that occurs over a short period of time. In the majority of cases, acute pancreatitis is caused by gallstones ”
Now what is good is that you only have one large stone but it also depends if your gallbladder is still operating as it should – it should contract when various foods are eaten.
Flushes sadly do not work – they are only the olive oil and bile salts hardened up – the solution does not even go into the gallbladder.
Herbal teas . chanca piedra, gold coin grass, chinese bitters, dandelion root tea etc are probably good for your body generally but i personlly have done 5 flushes and taken all the above teas for 5 months and my gallbladder is still completely filled up with small stones. I had a sono done in October which showed my GB filled with stones. doing the flushes i passed each time about 40-55 green/ ochre pea stones so after 5 flushes say 150-200 stones…well i saw the images on the monitor from my sono done a couple of weeks ago and i can say that the flush stones definitely DID NOT come from my Gallbladder – as my GB is still completely filled up…they are only mix of oil and bile
Sadly in my sitatuion he said that as the GB has been filled up with stones for at least a good few year then my GB has not actually worked (contracted as it should) as it cant due to its filled up.
then even if the stones were to come out with the chinese method then there is a small chance the GB will function again as its like asleep now..so my body will probably not even notice it if its removed as its now been without its full operation for a long time. so sadly i dont have any other option -tried all the flushes/teas which did nothing.
so unless a miracle happens overnight then it looks for me GB removal surgery.
You should also change your diet – i did and dont have any more attacks for a long time. but i dont want to risk any GB cancer or pancreatitis- which is 100 times more painful than a GB attack !!!
if you need any other info on diets etc -please ask
take care and good luck
Hi Alex….thanks for taking the time to write. I don’t want to ‘highjack’ Eugene’s site about the Chinese surgery with a debate about flushes/herbs etc. I am more than happy to discuss flushes/herbs/diet and I have created an email address if you wish to debate further.
clgk6349@gmail.com
Take care, Carole
In response to your comments….I am fortunate in that I have the one stone…sad that it is so large and not easy to flush! I had absolutely no idea I had a gallstone….it was as a result of my liver being badly affected because of medication.
My liver/gb/pancreas/kidneys are all now very healthy – recent bloods and scans. Herbs/diet and TCM have helped enormously to rebalance my body and especially the liver which was in a poorly state.
Why do some of us have gallstones….who knows? I tick the box – hereditary! Diet/lifestyle – no! One thing I do have is a wonky thyroid….and they are notorious for causing a vast number of problems and gallstones/thyroid problems are very common.
I have one gallstone now…the other has gone! My current stone is moving about freely….and that I am sure is because of the work I have done over the past six months with diet and herbs. Something is working.
Yesterday I received an email from Sensible Health saying they have helped many people with large gallstones – calcified and otherwise and they have before and after scans to show that herbs have worked.
As you say, it is vital to get the liver/gb decongested and it may take considerable time and a larger dose of herbs. I am convinced that this has been my case.
Surgery or not? An interesting debate….. I know of people who have had gb surgery and are happy….others not so. One lady has recurrent pancreatitis because the surgeon made an error! A man who’s surgeon left a stone in a duct and he was rushed back into hospital. Perhaps these cases are rare….but the forums are filled with people who have problems post surgery.
I cannot have surgery at the moment….so it gives me time to try other means and I am passionate about complementary therapies and so am happy to try those.
As for diet….again what may work for one may not work for another. Apple Cider Vinegar is great for some people during an attack….other people prefer beet tea or flax tea.
A very complex business and each person has to work out what works for them.
I know I make gallstones and so nothing will now change that situation for the duration of my life…whether I have any form of surgery or not. That’s what I am trying to work with at the moment – through diet and herbs….to make my life as enjoyable and healthy as possible.
Sensible Health and Earth Clinic both have a lot of information/advice on gallstones/liver/gb problems. SH in particular I found very helpful.
Yes, of course, the gb may be very badly diseased and not functioning properly and, in some cases, surgery will be the only sensible option. However, I do believe with the correct help it can be healed…if the stones can be removed successfully.
I do hope you are able to find something – other than surgery – that will help you. Don’t give up.
If I can help you in any way…..I am more than happy to try!
Try this new procedure and then if it does not work out you can remove gallbladder with ease on your mind that you did what you could.
GB is still functional but it is not contracting 100%.
And those “flushes” are just a placebo, no scientific proof they ever worked
Hi there,
I am so glad to have found this site!
I have been struggling with gallstones since my twenties (I am now 34) as it runs in the family and I have been the typical yoyo dieter!
I have had a good amount of attacks in the past that were set quite far apart, and I had been able to keep them at bay by either eating well, taking medicines such as Advil and Tylenol or vicadine, and had in the past done flushes.
Unfortunately this past october I had an attach that I could not revert and so I ended up in the hospital with emergency procedure to figure out.
I have always known about the removal of the gallbladder but never wanted to do it because I am the type of person that believes that what God gave us we should try to preserve, if permitted to!
Luckily for me, I think he was smiling upon me on that day because there was this doctor there (which funnily enough, was a doctor that I wanted to see a few years before, but wasn’t able to for some reason that I can not remember!) that was able to do an ERCP procedure (the procedure that takes out the stones that are stuck in the ducts by using some instrument that goes done the throat and does what it does!)
now….
Unfortunately, ever since, my gallbladder seems to be more sensitive and has been acting out way too much to lead a normal life:(
I just went to do an ultrasound and a blood work because my upper abdomen area has been really hurting in these passed few weeks, and it looks like I have a stone that is probably about 3 cm big and, of corse, a “LOT” of smaller stones.
I am going to the specialist tomorrow which of corse is going to tell me that the only solution is to remove the gallbladder because they will likely come back anyway, but since he is the cool doctor that did the ERCP on me, I think that if I go there armed with more information he might try and help me figure out the alternatives.
I am hoping that he will give me something for the inflammation, then give me permission to do a flush, and then tell me to come back to do another ultrasound to check where we are at; but obviously the large stone wont be able to flush out…..
so…..
Here I am, looking for some kind of procedure that can take the stones out without taking the gallbladder too, so that it can by me time for future innovations such as the future nonobots!!
My only problem is that I live in the US and I have been trying to see if there is anywhere in this country (possibly in the west) where the do this procedure, but I have not found it yet.
so …. does anyone out there know if there is somewhere here in America where I could do this, or is england and china the only places? And if there isn’t somewhere here in the states, is one place better then the other?
Please, please let me know as soon as possible because the problem is definitely getting worse and I know that I can not mess around with this for too long especially since I have two beautiful kids for whom I have to stick around for healthily, but also because I am so tiered of being at the mercy of this issue:(
Thanks to all, especially to Eugene for putting this information out and of corse to the doctors that have invented this new method:)
Alex that is a very full and researched post. Thanks very much. I also read on an australian website that most people who have their GB’s out don’t actually notice much difference because the body has already been ignoring it for some time as it has “packed in”. That concurs with what you have found out. I think the people with a fully functioning GB and stones and have surgery are more likely to notice post-op issues.
It almost makes sense to allow the GB to “fall asleep” first then have the surgery. Then it isn’t as much of a shock to the digestive system that will likely already have adjusted to working without the GB.
Eugene, you have been quiet, please let us know how you are.
Good afternoon, Eugene. How at you put, what showed ultrasound of your gall bladder, you had stones?
Hi Eugene, how long was it before you noticed that new stones were forming? Are you still experiencing gallstone pain now that new ones are forming? How many days would you say were required to have xrays/ultrasounds/bloodwork, have the surgery, and post-op care before you were discharged from the hospital? I was diagnosed with gallstones today. I’m in decent enough shape to consider going to China for the same procedure you had. I’m just a bit skeptical because this sounds so easy… I’m terrified I’ll wake up only to find my organs have been harvested for the black market. I did find a plethora of articles about the new method being used to clean out the gallbladder, but I’m concerned with language barriers, hospital cleanliness, post-op care, and so forth. I await your reply. Best Regards, CJ
I did ultra sound scan after 3 months from operation. I hope they are not stones, but a sludge forming, not sure if hard stones can form that quickly… I hope…
There is no pain to what I had before operation, this is like day and night difference. Usually when I ate fatty food pain and discomfort would be 7 out of 10, lasting for up to a full day, and now I eat and there is no pain as such, but very light discomfort, I can feel my gallbladder does something, I would scale it on discomfort scale as 0.3 out of 10, and it goes away very quickly ~15 minutes.
We did operation in hurry, because of bad timing, Dr. Tie Qiao had to move to north China after 2 days. So on Sunday we arrived to hospital, quickly did all scans and tests, took about 2 hours running around hospital complex. Then on Monday morning I was wheeled into the very very cold operation room and that was it. On Saturday I was clear to go.
My gallbladder is with me, not yet sold on black market.
Doctors and staff they are all PROs, hospital is huge, dedicated to gallbladder and that area.
Don’t worry, I took the risk so you don’t have to
Hi Eugene,
First off, thank you very much for making this website! I am a 25 year old female from the US and have gallstones. I am very conflicted about getting my gallbladder removed because I believe that it is in fact an important organ, and not something doctors should be so nonchalant about removing. I understand that it is the definitive treatment these days because there is always a chance of recurrence, but I think removing the stones first is a better option.
I am just wondering though, does this doctor have any statistics of the chance of recurrence? I know you are starting to get a few small stones back, what do you plan on doing about that?
What was your recovery like, and how long we’re you hospitalized? How long did the procedure take?
I am very interested in doing this surgery and if you could give me any other information that you haven’t already touched on, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thank you again for taking the risk to do the surgery and documenting it so well on this site!
Ask Dr. Wang for statistics, they did hundreds of operations.
I am taking Urso acid pills and drink Epsom salts once a week.
Recovery was heavy, first 3 days were horrible, I could not move my body nor use abdomen muscles in any way whatsoever.
I laid out all info I’ve got on this blog =)
I recommend this operation, because you can always remove your gallbladder later
Hi Eugene,
Thank you for replying so fast! I spoke Dr. Wang over the phone today, he told me to email him my ultrasound results, and my blood work to see if I am a good candidate for this procedure.
How is your digestion now? I assume there’s a huge difference right? How soon after you had the surgery done did you notice a difference in your digestion? I read somewhere that you could actually feel the stitches in your gallbladder, is that for real?! I totally agree with you on removing the stones first and then resorting to removing the entire thing later, if need be.
Digestion is good now, I can eat everything I want without pain.
You will feel something for sure in abdomen area for quite some time.
That’s great to hear! Can you contact me through email when you have a chance, so I can communicate with you that way? I am seriously considering this surgery and I have some other general questions about the facility and things that I want to ask you. So whenever you’re not busy, if you could just send me a quick email, that would be awesome!
ask me any question here
Good afternoon, Eugene. I write to you from Russia. I too have stones in a gall bladder, for this reason occurs заброс bile in a stomach and an inflammation of a duodenal gut. Now I stones are dissolved by Usrsofalk but if doesn’t help I want to perform operation on removal of stones with preservation of a gall bladder. Write please – what complications after operation? Whether surely there will be stones after operation? How the section affects a stomach at its work after operation? Thank you very much for the answer.
Eugene, write please how many makes the recovery period after operation? Why you then so quickly had stones? Whether it is possible to prevent their emergence if to drink preparations which increase outflow of bile and to observe the correct diet? I thank you for the answer.
I hope these are not stones, but pre-stones / sludge from which stones will form in the future.
I drink urso acid and epsom salts, hope they will help me
no serious complications after surgery, just a post op pain in abdomen area, try to not get ill before, during and after operation, don’t sneeze, don’t cough, don’t laugh
painful it was for me 
Prepare yourself for operation: boost immune system by vitamin C and stuff, get some flu shots and vaccines etc.
Stones may come back if you are not lucky, but it will take years to form, meantime doctors will invent new technologies to remove gallstones or fix liver and gallbladder’s workings.
Sounds great! One question arised though… Is it safe to be operated in China? I mean the hygiene and other things when in a strange bacterial environment etc.? I know nothing about that country
- Kelly
It is a good clean hospital, but since it is a new country for immune system, you’d better take all vaccines and shots possible before your trip.
Thank you for answering… You don’t think it is possible to skip the hotel in Hong Kong? Are those hotel nights expensive? How long does it take to travel from HK to Panyu? How much did you pay for the ferry? How far is the ferry from HK airport?
THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Hi Kelly,
There’s a direct flight from Dubai to Guangzhou & then it takes about 1 hour to get to Panyu – if you want to avoid HK altogether. I went for my surgery in Jan this year and couldn’t be happier! I eat anything and only feel slightest discomfort if I over eat or if it’s a high fat meal ( which I try to avoid now).
It is possible to skip hotel in HK if you come early morning and then go straight to the ferries.
We had a “hotel” in a busy high street, paid ~80 GBP for a jail cell with cucarachas 
And surroundings were also terrifying… HK has some serious problems with free space.
We were horrified by HK
From HK ferry port to Panyu ferry port it take and hour or so and it is cheap ~30 GBP for both of us if I am not mistaken.
Suggested routes
52 mins
9:56pm – 10:48pm
1 hour 22 mins
E41
10:09pm – 11:30pm
1 hour 37 mins
E11
10:12pm – 11:48pm
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=hk+air+port&daddr=hk+ferry+port&hl=en&ll=22.321813,114.049072&spn=0.172454,0.308647&sll=22.310061,114.047356&sspn=0.172469,0.308647&geocode=FaKBVAEdD4LKBiEGNW3v28Df-CmfR5pw3OIDNDEGNW3v28Df-A%3BFZMQVAEddPTNBiF_rE_VMFy4lynPF1MaYgAENDF_rE_VMFy4lw&t=h&dirflg=r&ttype=now&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&mra=ltm&z=12&start=0
Destination Duration Departure
Point Time Class Adult Child
(1–4yrs) Time Class Adult Child
(1–4 yrs)
Panyu 番禺
(Nansha 南沙)
1 hour
15 minutes
08:00
09:00
10:50
14:00
16:15
First
Economy
$230
$185
$135
$110
09:15
11:00
14:00
*16:00
18:00
—
Economy
—
$165
—
$90
http://www.splendid.hk/images/PDF/Ferry-HK_China.pdf
Thank you! One more question come in to mind.. Do you need a visa when travelling there?
Ooo.. I’m sorry! Now I notice that you have already mentioned the visa
Lots of things to take in to account!
Some more questions:
- Do they have WLAN in that hospital?
?
- Did you get any permanent medication or just a few days?
- How soon did you get operated after getting to the hospital?
- Did you find it difficult to navigate in China?
- How did your friend spend time in that hospital.. did she get bored
- What kind of location is it? Is there any reastaurants, hotels, shops etc. near by the hospital?
- How did you arrange your eting there?
Thank you so much if able to give some comments
!!
- Do they have WLAN in that hospital?
YES, but connection to outside China will be sluggish
- Did you get any permanent medication or just a few days?
Eating mint candies and Epsom salts for two weeks
- How soon did you get operated after getting to the hospital?
Next day
- Did you find it difficult to navigate in China?
Phone GPS was not working, probably different GPS system, hard to navigate without guide
- How did your friend spend time in that hospital.. did she get bored ?
Not bored
- What kind of location is it? Is there any restaurants, hotels, shops etc. near by the hospital?
Lots of shops and restaurants on main street nearby.
- How did you arrange your eating there?
Dr. Wang helped us to get to a restaurant near river, but it was a bit far away from hospital, we took hospital minivan to get there
Hello,
Can someone please remove this post I made on the 2nd of February:
Erik:
February 2, 2013 at 11:06
I am sorry I write too much personal information about my health, I don´t want it public.
/Erik
Hi, You mentioned in your reply “GB is still functional but it is not contracting 100%.”,
1. How you can tell its not contracting 100%.
2. What are the difficulties you facing for this.
3. if its not 100% then how much you will rate its contraction.
4. is the contraction getting better or its still same.
Please Advise. Thanks
I am having trouble distinguishing the two hospitals from the links on this website. On google maps I get Second People’s Hospital of Nanhai (南海区第二人民医院) on Xiadong road (夏东路). But on baidu I get Second People’s Hospital of Panyu (番禺第二人民医院) on Xingye road (兴业路) near Dagang park (大岗公园), but it’s not listed on google maps. Eugene, at which hospital did you have this operation?
You won’t find this hospital on your own, just make sure hospital representatives pick you up from ferry port or some other well known location.
Thanks but I know how to read maps. I have never got lost.
Also I don’t know if it was my smart phone or me or what, I could not get GPS signal in China.
Are they blocking GPS signals there or having different GPS standards?
Also could not find China maps for IGO or Copilot or Sygic
Hello. I am from Russia. I saw Your film above. I understood you correctly? Do You speak Russian?
Yes, I do
Хотел бы узнать, я вот смотрел Ваше узи от февраля 13 года, у Вас образовались опять камни 3-4 милиметра, как Вы собираетесь их удолять? Можно попробовать желчегонными средствами (всетаки камне небольшие), но вот только как шов отреагирует, в связи с этим И второй вопросс через сколько времени рубец на желчном пузыре полностью заростает?
Рубец не заростает у меня так и остался.
Стал чуть менее заметным.
Как удалять пока не знаю.
Пью урсо кислоту.
Пил Epsom Salts, шов норм.
Я имею ввиду разрез на желчном пузыре, не снаружи. Что говорят врачи сам разрез на желчном пузыре заростает? И за какое время если да?
не знаю даже. Доктор Ванг сказал пить epsom salts Magnesium sulfate значит шов будет ок.
Пил Magnesium sulfate всё норм со внутренним швом, если он там вообще есть или остался.
Спросите у доктора Ванга детали технические
Большое спасибо за Ваш ответ и за блог, очень признателен.
У Вас тоже камни? Расскажите свою историю =)
Дайте мне пожайлусто адрес Вашей электронной почты. I want privacy.
Я хочу написать все на вашу электронную почту.
Single mobile gallstone 9mm has been detected in my Gall bladder ,I don’t have any symptoms at all and I am normal,but I want to get rid of the stone ,How can contact this Doctor for his advise.
Hi Eric, You recommend that someone shoud pic you up from a well known spot when arriving to Panyu. I think they might not do that anymore, do they?
Then some questions..
Why have you been visiting doctors so often after this operation.. do you have pain?
You say you want an ultrascan… is it necessary, can the stones be back so soon?
How have you been feeling in general?
Why do the doctors still want to cut your gb out after this operation?
It’s very nice to hear the latest news of your story.. so thank you for updating
Best wishes for all my foreig friends !Hope all of you feel good after the operation.I will miss all of you,remind the time we spend together.
Hi Crystal, do you have an email where I can contact you?
Hi Eugene,
Lots of good information.. I live in Northern USA and was wondering if you know of any medical doctors visiting China to learn this procedure. I emailed one of the doctors but have not heard anything yet.. Thanks so much and good luck to you.
Have no idea, ask Dr. Wang
Hello, Evgeny. Long ago I didn’t write to you. Whether how are you? Rasvoryaetsya a bile deposit in a gall bladder? Here already as five months I рассворяю stones in a gall bladder a preparation Ursofalk. By results of ultrasonography they practically don’t disappear.
The doctor says that it is necessary to do planned operation on removal of a gall bladder. When I told to the doctor about the Chinese clinic which is carrying out operations on removal of stones with preservation of body, she answered that this operation contradicts all medical canons.
And even if stones will disappear, will appear again and all the same it is necessary to delete a gall bladder.
Evgeny how you think why there is no response of the person already removed stones from a gall bladder? ? ? Why people don’t leave reviews of operation and further rehabilitation? About it write only you.
Evgeny, write please as at operation get to a gall bladder if you know? (Through a stomach or not)? It is very important. Whether you speak in Russian?
There is a strong wish to get rid of stones, but I so am afraid to go to others country, with foreign language. And so there isn’t enough information on the operation. I thank for the answer.
The Ursofalk can be useful only to cholesterol stones. And only a few patients with cholesterol stones can be cured by take Ursofalk. Now we don’t know the composition of your stones. If it is not cholesterol stones, Ursofalk is not useful.
Not every patient after remove gallbladder stones without gallbladder excision will have gallbladder stone again. According to our follow up, the rate of relapse is about 10%.
My email： 122642771@qq.com
What type of stone is mine?
Is it calcified stone?
Hello Rita, There is still no an American doctor to learn this procedure. Because this operation is still a controversial topic, it need time to be accepting by most of the doctors.
My email 122642771@qq.com
Still wanted to ask – whether your deposit in a gall bladder disappears?
Tomorrow we are going to Latvia for ultrasound.
Will see how it grows back…
Hello Eugene,
I too think your website is great and a terrific service to many who want this operation and would otherwise never learn about it.
My doctor also says why when the stones will just come back. My feeling is they took so long to form that I will worry about it then if I live that long.
I am curious about one thing Dr. Wang said in writing to your website. He said that they “grasped the gallbladder with forceps and extracted it outside of the abdominal wall” before making the incision to remove the stones. Do you know if he is saying the gallbladder is extracted outside the body? If so since the gallbladder is attached to the liver they must have to cut it loose from the liver. Maybe you don’t know, but if that is done, I was wondering what happens when they put it back in place? Do they re-attach it or does it just move around inside the body cavity?
I know I join many people in thanking you for your insight to put your experience on the web and providing everyone with a forum.
Take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFOzx-cFTNc&list=PLRNlUtvf0e8S5h5uFzzU0RjVxohrHPYeM&index=1
I think they cut through skin and gallbladder and pull out the gallstone that’s all I know.
Ask for more technicalities from Dr. Wang.
Hello. I have 8 gallstones. Size from 10 to 18 mm. They are movable. Ultrasound showed:
Size of gallbladder is 10.2*4.4 cm.
The thickness of the gallbladder wall is 4mm.
The gall bladder is filled to 30%.
The size of the right lobe of the liver is 11.1 cm.
The size of the left lobe of the liver is 6.2 cm.
Tell me please. What are the chances? How much time I need to recover after procedure, in order to continue to work?
Thank You.
When we do the operation, we pull the bottom of the gallbladder out of the abdominal wall. It needs not to cut it loose from the liver. In most of the people the bottom of the gallbladder is not adhere to the liver. After remove stones, we stitch the wound of the gallbladder and put it back to the abdomen. It will recover as usual.
My email 122642771@qq.com
I notice that Eugene was in a great deal of pain for a day, and didn’t leave the hospital I think for four days after the procedure. Usually when the gallbladder is removed here the patient can go home the same or next day. Also with morphine there usually isn’t any pain. Is there a reason for the longer recovery time? Do you administer morphine? Do you have a constant intravenous feed of antibiotics in case of infection?
Good evening, Eugene. You made ultrasound of a gall bladder, what it showed? You had stones?
How much time you usually need to recover after procedure?
Hi, Eugene!
I am from Ukraine and have the same problem with stones.
You’ve previously mentioned that you felt discomfort after gallstones removal. It mean that even after removing of a galstone you felt the pain? Or what it was? It’s because of new comming stones or a result of operation? Do you feel the discomfort every time? How fast did stones appear again?
I felt dizzy, for a couple of days, some heavy anaesthesia it was …
Also I forgot how to pee for 2 days and it was quite frustrating and interesting
The wound in the right upper abdomen cut off some muscle fibers. It is under the rib, and when you move, cough or bend over, you will fell pain. The pain will disappear after 2~3 days.
Some one have inflammation in the gallbladder, we will use antibiotics after the operation according to the degree of inflammation.
The patient can eat liquid food the next day after operation. And will recover normal diet after 3 days.
Eugene:
Did you get results of Ultrasound from Latvia? Thanks.
Hello, Eugene. How your results of Ultrasound? ? ? Whether there are at you stones? ? ? ?
See my Latvian results http://whatisgallstone.com/#latvia
I posted on this site a few months ago. Please read my earlier posts to get full history. I decided to get my GB removed. It is now 3 months since the operation. Putting the obvious pain aside after the first few days, I noticed very little difference in my digestive system in the first 2-3 weeks, a bit of the runs, but nothing too difficult to cope with. However as the weeks progressed, I would actually go as far as to say it has actually IMPROVED the workings of my digestive track. I’d even asked myself the question, “have they actually removed it”?
As I hypothesised in earlier post, if your gallbladder isn’t working properly the chances are your body won’t notice too much difference once it is removed. It is NOT a vital organ, it is a USEFUL one to assist the digestive track IF IT IS WORKING PROPERLY. Otherwise it is simply dead weight with the potential to cause more serious problems. Getting rid of the stones is likely only a temporary fix as the chemical imbalance in your GB will simply cause new stones to form again. Gall stones are a complication/consequence of gall bladder disease.
In my research, 60-70% of people who have op have no problems post-op, 30% have some mild issues and an unfortunate 5-10% have issues that require adjustments. Some say a lot of that can be down to the skill and experience of the surgeon. Ideally they should have carried out the op at least 30 times – don’t be afraid to ask your surgeon about their experience. When I asked mine, he laughed and said he had done it more than 1000 times and regularly carried it out at least twice per week. I know I am likely one of the lucky ones and thank god for that.
Making the decision to have your GB removed is a big one, especially since you can’t go back on it. Getting the china treatment still leaves you the option, so it’s understandable why it’s so attractive. However you must accept that you maybe delaying the inevitable and none of us are getting any younger.
Eugene has helped a lot of people, especially MYSELF on this forum with his honesty, I just feel I owe it to him and to everyone to do the same.
Sorry if this hurts some people.
Well, I did my best I could. And if gallstones keep growing that fast and pain returns I’d have to remove my gallbladder for good…